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tv   Bulls and Bears  FOX News  March 6, 2010 10:00am-10:30am EST

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best movie and that's in those great swag bags the celebrities get. >> we're going to do a poll. join us for "fox & friends." >> this is a fox news alert. we're creating jobs. the problem is, they're federal government jobs. uncle sam adding 7,000 new workers last month as another 36,000 americans get the pink slips. and not only do they have the jobs, now they have the money, too. a lot more money than those of us in the private sector. is that the problem? hi, everyone. this is bulls and bears. let's get right to it. here they are, the bulls and bears. gary, tobin smith, pat dorsey, inside scoop radio show host mark la convenient. welcome to everybody. erik, washington is where it's at. we should all be working there. is that a problem?
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>> 108,000 bucks to create a job in washington, in government. $69,000 for the exact same apples to apples job and the difference, yeah, about 7,000 comes from the salary difference. you get paid 7,000 bucks more being a federal worker. but the real difference comes in all the benefits, the health care, everything else they put in. the difference around 40,000 for benefits package for a government worker and about 9,000 in the private sector. we lost 4 million jobs since obama has been elected. in that same period of time, almost every single sector lost jobs except for one. which one? wait for it. federal jobs. not state and local jobs. >> that's not a hard one to figure out. mark, do you have any problem with that? >> no, not at all. the federal government is often the stimulus of the economy. go back to the 1930s. you'll see how the new deal worked. it's by government aid for
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building infrastructure, the contractors go out and buy food for their family. >> and unemployment goes up. >> no. we were losing 700,000 jobs a month. >> there was something called world war ii. toby, this really isn't just an issue of fairness, though. i mean, we don't all have to make the same amount of money. but what -- >> the issue is, no private employer can compete with a company like the u.s. government that's going to lose 1 1/2 trillion dollars a year employing you. no private company can compete when they pay $107,000 versus me paying 65,000. so here is what happens, to pay that 107,000, that comes from taxes from employers, like me. employers like me employ less and our economy spirals downward. by adding all these jobs we can't afford at the federal level, we kill the private level. >> let me see, resume, to uncle
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sam, is that what we should all be doing? they make more money and get jobs. >> well, to mark's point, the build-up in the government is great. you know why? they live in a different world than the rest of society. a great world there. you know what unemployment is in construction? it's 12%. and to mark's point, let me also add one example, you know, the people on the liberal side will claim, the government is not really like for like job, they're doing more complicated. i found a job that should be the same in both. clergy. as far as i know, god is god. clergy in the government gets paid $70,000 a year. in the private sector, $39,000. so maybe i'm missing something, but to mark's point as government as stimulus, i want to read a quote. growth in government stunts general economic growth and increases in government spending
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or taxes lead to persistent decreases in the rate of job growth. you know who said that, mark? the federal reserve, for crying out cloud! to your point, study after study shows just the opposite of what you're claiming. >> mark, go ahead. take him on. >> if you want to see more construction work, you want to see more construction job, build more bridges, build more highways. the government does that. that gets more money. >> really? >> we're not talking about apples to apples. yes, you build your roads outside your house. i don't know about you, i don't travel on private roads. i use the government roads. >> private contractors build the bridges and the roads. >> hold on. >> let me give you a specific example. you talked about clergy. a lot of clergy serve in war zones. guess what? if you serve in war zone, they want a little more money. >> doctors are paid less. >> the one job that they really deserve a lot more money are the janitors 'cause can you imagine
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shoveling up all that stuff? >> in a war zone, brenda, dangerous. >> i understand. okay. erik, what do you say to mark? >> another thing we have to consider here, you see the stock market go up and you say, this must be working, the stimulus. well, it's not. 15 million people out of work, small businesses aren't hiring 'cause they're worried about a lot of things, worried about health care, what their energy will cost. they're worried about everything. what they're trying to do is get by without hiring more people so the more you try to falsely stimulate the economy, the more you're probably -- >> hold on. >> hopefully stimulate? >> hold on just a minute 'cause pat, you were always so quiet and always so smart that i sometimes forget you. >> that's a set-up, don't fall for it. >> i know you have something interesting to say because you often say, you can choose to take more benefits and all the rest or choose to take more pay. what if you get both, you can get both in the government? >> i'll take the quiet part.
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we can argue about whether i'm smart or not later on after i say what i'm going to say. in context of this, government workers do have very generous benefits. we can argue they're much too generous because they're promises that you can't take back. like salaries which can go up or down. that gets paid out over a long time. to put scale on this problem, 3 million federal jobs in the u.s. out of 130 million total jobs, so it's 3 million out of 130 million. 84% of whom are employed outside the dc area. >> right, but pat, look at the states. if you take the states, which are six times the federal level, they have a more generous benefits, number one. >> and state and local employment is six times level of federal. but that's not the topic, is it? >> oh!
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>> thank you, pat. i'm not giving up. and the other issue is that if you look your point, which is that a state or government, they can't go bankrupt. if they're losing money, they have to pay the benefits. in a normal private business, if they overpromise, they go bankrupt and it goes away. >> you are quiet -- not quiet. mark, i think the point here is that government is choosing industries to invest in. most likely -- most of us would agree they do need to create the national highway system and all the rest, but that's not where all the money is going right now. >> that's where a lot of stimulus package went, to infrastructure. >> no it didn't. >> the alternative minimum tax. it gave 95% of tax cuts to working people. which i support. a lot of it, yeah, went to infrastructure. you talk about government jobs, i'm an example -- i had a government job, i used to work in congress and i had a huge pay
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cut from my job as attorney before hand. i did it because i believed in government. most people who work for the government believe in helping their country, believe in serving their country. >> 55% more than the private job. i can take my belief and retire after 20 years. i'm in. where do i sign up? >> let me ask you, do you want a simple accountant overseeing whether the pentagon is spending $500,000 on toilet seats or not? you need sophisticate to do save money, and in the irs to save money, to save taxpayers millions of dollars. >> irs seems like an oxymoron. >> we've got toilet seats and everything. there is one government worker, neil's gang says, we should be thanking today. why? find out at the bottom of the hour. but first, a new report just out putting some very ugly numbers on the president's budget going forward and that's without this
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trillion dollar health care bill. proof we can't afford it?
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from america's news headquarters, good morning, everyone. imogam i don't colby. we're learning more about the suspect in thursday's pentagon shooting. take a look at this video of john patrick bedell posted on the internet. his parents are saying they warned police last month that he was missing and might have is a gun. friends and family describe him
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as intellectually gifted, but they say he had mental problems that grew worse in recent years. there are also reports he was diagnosed as bipolar and had been in and out of treatment programs. two police were wounded and bedell was killed in the shootings. bomb blasts on the eve of parliamentary elections in iraq. it happened in najaf. a car bomb exploded near a bus filled with religious pilgrims. three people were killed, including two people from iran and at least 50 others were injured. now back to bulls and bears. see new 30 minutes. $1.2 trillion more in the red over the next ten years. the independent congressional budget office now saying when you add the president's budget up, our federal deficits for this decade will hit nearly $10 trillion. toby saying what other proof do
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we need that we can't afford the democrats' health care plan? >> it comes from the cbo. these are people, who, if you look at the rate of myth that they've had on every other study they've done, if they're saying $1.2 trillion, the numbers probably like $3 trillion. the number one reason is the assumptions they take into these options, the other plans they're talking about, the congress would actually have to follow what they said and congress has never, on medicare, any of these cuts, ever made the cuts they said they were going to make. it's simple. >> mark, how can we afford this? >> how can we afford this? it will save money! the health care bill is not a budget buster, it's a budge jest booster, according to the same congressional office that republican grassley calls god. they said it will save $1 trillion. more than that and you can argue 1.2. we save money at the same time as consumers save money. this is good stuff and good for the budget.
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>> pat, my little quiet pat. cost containment. is that an issue? >> the issue is we can't afford to not do health care reform, but this isn't health care reform. it's health care coverage expansion. those are trove, very different things. health care reform means blowing up the fee tore service system and paying for results, paying for health outcomes. not paying for procedures. but that involves a radical reworking of the entire system that is not what has ever been on the table. >> right now it seems like the public option, erik, might still be on the table. >> here is what we're hearing, that the public option may be on the table for people who are uninsured, people who are currently insured, can continue to do whatever they're going to do. the problem is, here what happens, if you open up that pandora's box, people who are uninsured get this public option, they're getting insurance at a lower rate. so people who pay their insurance premiums say, i don't
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like this anymore, i'm paying too much, i'm going to get on the public option. before long, you have all, all, not 30 million, all 155 million people who are being insured or more, 300 million if it's the whole country, bulldozed into the open arms of obama care. >> okay. >> that's a great admission. erik admit that had public care is cheaper than the private care. >> it drives free enterprise of health insurance out the window. you want to nationalize health care, what's next? >> what's wrong with getting it at a cheaper price? when i get my gas or electricity or water, the government regulate it is and i get it cheaper. >> come on, gary b, somebody going to be paying for this, is that you and me? >> first of all, the public, stuff like medicare is not
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cheaper than private insurance. it appears to be cheaper because government, like all government agencies, are able to hide a lot of their costs. they share buildings. they don't have to do marketing, and they don't have to do things like cost control either. some of those other administrative things. so sure, i mean, if you're like medicare, you can claim wow, we have this great system, but, of course, a lot of these government things, social security, medicare, medicaid, are basically bankrupt. so mark can claim that it's low cost, but it's basically price controls and at some point, it's going to explode. the other thing is when this is scored, this bill with these -- let me finish. when this bill is scored, of course, what you have there is ten years of savings versus only six years of cost. if scored on a decade by decade basic, especially going into the second decade, this obama care is going to run trillions of dollars deficit. this is going to be ungodly expensive and erik is right. some studies could drive out half of private insurance all
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because it's government mandated price controls. that's not going to work. >> go ahead. >> i was going to say, if it drives down private insurance, it's because people aren't choosing it. it's a public option. >> if they're choosing it because -- >> not if it's more efficient. >> 94% of americans on it like it. it's a good program. it works. >> because it's cost dependent, it's broke! >> mark, the way the plan is set up, according to the latest numbers, the government would mandate extraordinary coverage that if i'm an insurance company, i would have to offer at the state self directed level. if that happens, the rates for the private business go through the roof and it's an absolute job killer and your whole idea goes down the toilet. >> ten seconds to erik, last word. >> you can't just drive 2 1/2 trillion dollars industry out and into the arms of government. they're too big already. >> okay. thanks, guys. lawmakers telling you to rat out
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your boss and friends who cheat on their taxes. so why did they just protect their own staffers who aren't paying theirs? more dc hypocrisy after this.
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>> 75 million for cash for clunkers. you heard me right. clunk
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tax cheats still on the loose in d.c democrats just blocking the move to fire their congressional staffers who aren't given the tax man his due. same, they're encouraging all of us to turn in our colleagues and friends cheating on taxes. gary b, you say fire their --
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i'll let you say it. >> i won't say it either. because i share your sentiment. i think to put it into context, this is not just one or two people. there is over 600 staffers on capitol hill that owe more than $8 million in taxes. i'm not trying to be a hard guy, but i think if you are in charge of making the laws of the land, you should live by the laws of the land and just like the irs, by the way, you don't pay your taxes, you get fired. i think it should apply to everyone on capitol hill. congressmen, senators, and these staffers who aren't paying. that should be the bottom line. look, as you point out, everyone else has to pay. these people should pay, too. >> yeah. it applies just to the irs and why not you guys on the hill, mark? >> well, if it's intentional and it's egregious, absolutely, fire them. but it depends. if i failed to declare a 2-dollar tip, should i go to jail? should i be fired?
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i don't think so. let's see if they're serious and they're intentional, absolutely. >> hmm, i don't know. toby, what if i almost kill somebody? >> look, evidently charlie rangel is sort of our leader in this deal, so let's just draw the line there. if you do anything worse than charlie rangel, probably you should get fired. i'll leave it at that. >> tom delay did a lot worse than charlie rangel. >> it really doesn't matter, they cheated. >> come on. >> you can hardly blame them. tim geithner is the enforcer. he did it, too. >> pat what, do you think of this? >> -- the government is very complicated. >> pat, what do you think? >> there is a difference between the stakes and intentional cheating. >> well, there you go. that's it. why not? >> i agree. it depends on what. if you intentionally fail to declare a w2, that's pretty serious. if you forget about a 5-dollar
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dividend check that your grandmother gave you, i don't think that's intentional. >> he says he didn't realize he was supposed to pay taxes on the villas that he got rent from, it's bs. there is complete, complete thieves, liars and cheats. >> he's a nice guy. we don't want to go after him. that's not fair. he's a nice guy. >> five dollars and ten dollars there. we know it's millions of dollars. it's not 5, ten dollars here and there. >> hold on. >> the other thing is, you make a mistake, the irs says, you missed this, you got to pay the tax, you're considered paying your taxes. these are taxes not paid. by the way, it's not just capitol hill. it's the navy, the postal service, it's across a wide swath of federal government. >> how about anyone being fired, government or private if you don't pay their taxes? how about that? >> okay. there we go. we say thank you to mark for
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joining us. that was fun. >> thank you, brenda. >> up next -- >> this is 171 cleared for takeoff. >> cleared for takeoff. >> contact departure, adios. >> the kid friendly skies may not be safe, but it sure can be profitable. the name ready to soar 50%. first, it was cash for clunkers. then cash for cluckers. what?
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>> who is up first? >> you heard the kiddy skies. look at united airline, been hammered here and they're coming into the huge summer months, i think this thing is up 50% because they got a lot of leverage. >> gary b, bull or bear? >> i'm slightly bullish. i like the stock. i don't think it's a 50% gainer by september. but he's on the right track. you got a gun, you know where to bring it, bring it to starbucks. that's the place to go. anyway, guns or no gun, i think they win either way. i think the stock is making a real comeback. i went to starbucks for the first time in many months, loving it.
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>> do you like it or not? , pat? >> i think it's a little pricey right here. >> i knew it! >> too pricey. and your prediction? >> health care reit, not expensive like a lot right now. medical offices, long-term care. most of it's private pay. you're protected. 6 1/2% yield. >> one year, toby, what do you say? >> to the exciting stock and i want to buy it. >> all right. and the bratman? >> when you heard about that bill, $75 million going to poultry farmers, working its way through congress, hey, that means poultry farmers will do great. tyson foods up 30% in a year. that's what the cluck is. >> when the government gives money to people to raise chicken, the prices go down, you bone head!


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